05 March 2008 @ 08:52 am
SCC Meta/Rec  
In my first post about SCC, a review of the pre-air pilot I wrote in July 2007, I said this about Cameron:
"Cameron will, in the end, have to be sacrificed in a way completely different to the many deaths of the T-101. I think her model (by either accident or design) threatens the human-machine dualism of the Terminator mythology, and that for that dualism to be maintained, for the future to occur as it must, she will have to be destroyed. Irretrievably. With absolute finality. That, I suspect, is her purpose."

I wrote that review assuming - because it had been years since I'd seen Terminator or Terminator 2 - the metaphysics of T3 rather than of the first two films (or rather that of Kyle Reese and Sarah Connor): that the future was already set, and that Judgment Day was going to happen regardless of how much the past was changed.

Now, having seen more episodes of SCC, I've come to believe that, within the rules of this show at least, it is possible to change the future - to prevent Judgment Day. But my assessment of Cameron, and what she represents, hasn't changed very much. [info]rez_lo once mused that she thought perhaps Cameron was Skynet's gift to John, a symbol, maybe, of all that the two generals have in common; my first SCC fic was about John giving Cameron the software to be almost as intelligent as Skynet, whilst also nurturing her through her "childhood", affording her the concern and tutelage that Skynet did not get; [info]fryadvocate wrote about John's way of seeing Cameron as more than a "thing" being sharply (dangerously) at odds with how most of the resistance sees her.

What's been clear from the start is that Cameron is significant - because she is a "very scary robot", because she unsettles us so much, because in the pilot we were taken in and we feel emotion toward her. The new ads (showing Cameron as half-robot) that FOX had for SCC before it officially aired lessened the impact of that statement, but it deserves repeating that when the pre-air episode was doing the rounds, I read many reviews which expressed surprise that Cameron turned out to be a Terminator; she fooled us as much as she did John. None of the previous Terminators have ever done that, and only the T-888 (an "infiltrator", like Cameron) has shown anything like the sophisticated degree of human-like minicry that Cameron exhibits (when she chooses, when the mission dictates).

Cameron is a "freak", a wild card, with tremendous potential to affect the war and the future. Like Derek pointed out in "Vick's Chip", it is still conceivable that Cameron does turn into Skynet - that the bond between her and John (present! or future!John) is broken in some way and she strikes out on her own. She has that potential. But she also has the potential to be a kind of mediating force, a defector from the enemy who is simultaneously an ambassador for that enemy. She could be future!John's downfall, if he chooses her - and the compromise that she represents - above the desires of the rest of humanity. She is the greatest unknown, and the most beguiling type of mystery.

[info]little_giddy explores one possibility of Cameron's "purpose" (a Trojan horse from future!John to his past self) that makes complete sense to me. It's also one of the most fascinating and complex characterisations of John that I've read yet.

The Further I Fall, I'm Beside You, by [info]little_giddy (TSCC; John, Cameron)
John knew, like he'd always known, that nothing he did to the timeline would make Cameron human or born of a mother. That didn't mean he cared less, invested less in her; it meant the opposite. Cameron was a bomb and catalyst thrown into his own past, her every fibre from long hair to tone of voice calculated to get a precise reaction and loyalty from his own self. She was calculated to devastate him.


Edit: FOX, PLEASE DON'T CANCEL MY SHOW.
 
 
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operaticingenue: JMo[info]operaticingenue on March 4th, 2008 10:10 pm (UTC)
Lovely Meta~ I love Cameron because she IS a "Freak". Her child-like moments ("Here's a tight present" XD) make her character tragic at times because she seems so human and almost capable to learning how to have a soul but yeah... we all know she can't. :-\

Also, I don't think John and Cam will have an actual relationship (omg robot!smex???) but do you think John will develop deeper feelings for Cam? IMO, I think it kinda makes sense because he's had issues with emotional attatchments with terminators before.
Diana: scc_john.cameron[info]the_grynne on March 4th, 2008 10:49 pm (UTC)
I've always thought that Cameron/John was a foregone conclusion - given the respective ages of the actors, and the amazing dramatic potential in that kind of a story. Because the show isn't decided on exactly how "human" Cameron is (unlike the creators of Battlestar Galactica, who've made clear that they think the Cylons have as much a soul, potential for moral judgment, culture, etc. as we do), you'd get all sorts of issues popping up in SCC that you wouldn't get in BSG.

John is already behaving towards Cameron like she's more than a robot - the pretense of her being his sister helps, and the fact that John has few friends, none that he can talk honestly with. She fills the void of sister/friend. He treats her like family; he trusts her more than Sarah or Derek do; and he is always patient with her, explaining what she doesn't understand, and trying to understand her in return.
Lizzen: scc [like xena she has many skills][info]liminalliz on March 4th, 2008 10:49 pm (UTC)
LOVE LOVE LOVE. Oh I love this show.

And what I love the most about Cameron is that unlike other robots that Lizzen loves, she doesn't really WANT to be human or remembers being human or has been tricked into thinking she's human - she's definitely a Terminator and she embraces her identity - but she also embraces change and is very willing to become more "human"-like. She doesn't blindly follow all instruction, she makes decisions (which SkyNet is very specific in not wanting their Terminators to think for themselves and adapt, seyz the T2 special edition), she is growing personality. In that I ship her with John, I think she's growing into an almost dependent relationship with this human that she's programmed to protect. Having him fall in love with her is easy; trying to figure out why Summer Glau is very specific that she's playing Cameron as in love with John Connor -- that's where I find her so very compelling.

Oh, and also: DOOMED.
Diana: scc_cameron[info]the_grynne on March 4th, 2008 11:17 pm (UTC)
she's definitely a Terminator and she embraces her identity

I was just thinking about this while brushing my teeth:

BSG's deep-down message about humans/cylons seems to be, "The enemy is human, even though you don't think they are." (And of course, I've predicted for more than two seasons that the final twist will be that the "humans" in BSG are in fact an older race of "cylons" who've forgotten their own origins.)

SCC meanwhile does make a qualitative distinction; the machines are different in levels of complexity, and there's almost a spectrum of "humanity", which is actually more realistic. And Cameron is an individual (like Skynet is also an individual), she has an identity different from the rest, and she's exploring the freedom John has given her - to learn about humans, to eat and sleep and be treated like a human being.

And yes: SO VERY DOOMED!
Ade: and it wears me out[info]notexotic on March 4th, 2008 10:49 pm (UTC)
Ooh, love this! Especially when you bring up "compromise." What will his attachment to Cameron drive him to? He's already made so many sacrifices, and time is his to play with. I'd also dying to see more reactions to his behavior from those who survived Judgment Day. We already know that he supposedly has no friends, and his soldiers think he's at least a little insane.

Thanks also for the rec! I refuse to see future!John as anything but trapped by his own endless calculations. *scurries off to read*
Diana: scc_kyle reese[info]the_grynne on March 4th, 2008 11:41 pm (UTC)
I want to write more about the post-apoc society, but at the same time, am reluctant to do so. Canon may or may not have deformed babies, a huge gender imbalance, martial law, euthanasia of the infirm, a cult of vengeance, etc. I'd rather wait and find out, so I know what I'm writing to, if it's going to be a reaction.
Ade: a gift for hating[info]notexotic on March 5th, 2008 12:24 am (UTC)
I wonder about those things myself. It really comes down to what the TSCC writers are willing to do with their post-apocalyptic world building. I'd love for them to go to some very dark, complex places, but it is FOX after all.
rodlox[info]rodlox on March 5th, 2008 03:45 am (UTC)
we can always speculate about what the post-Judgement Day world is like.

the worst Fox can do is prove us wrong.
Ade: two to one and one is three[info]notexotic on March 4th, 2008 11:04 pm (UTC)
Also, I keep thinking of the line from CoD: "To know the future is to be trapped by it."

ISN'T THAT RIGHT, JOHN?
Diana: scc_john.cameron[info]the_grynne on March 4th, 2008 11:54 pm (UTC)
I still don't understand really how alternate universes/time-travel in Terminator works yet - or whether it's possible for it to work in a consistent way while still making the character's decisions meaningful. For example, if there are multiple, whether finite or infinite, timelines which co-exist, then what would be the motivation behind sending someone BACK in time to begin with? You would only create a separate timeline which you would have no way to access from the future; it doesn't affect your situation here and now. You might prevent Judgment Day in some other timeline - make things better for your Other Self (ie. the presentday John we are seeing) - but where you are (the future!John), Judgment Day has still been and went. By this theory, John is not so much being saved by his own future self as by an alternate self, one existing on an independent - and unreachable - timeline.

That's my current, preferred way of reading the series, at least. And if it's true, then that means John does have the freedom to make his own choices - and the possibility of making them differently from his Other Self.
Ade: burn and bleed[info]notexotic on March 5th, 2008 12:34 am (UTC)
I have a ridiculously convoluted meta-ish type post in the works to tackle that one. I agree with you, future!John has nothing to gain by sending people back except the knowledge that he might create a better pattern for his Other*. But what about the future!John we are dealing with in this show? How was his timeline affected by the infinite other future!Johns that existed? I definitely think there's an element of selfishness that creeps in over and over again, and it seems that our John will have the opportunity to continue to cycle or destroy it.

*Well, that and being fathered by Kyle. That's a whole other mess...
fryadvocate[info]fryadvocate on March 5th, 2008 12:41 am (UTC)
I agree- I love the characterization of future!John as complex and difficult. When Derek said that they got drunk on his birthday, it just didn't fly with me.
Diana: scc_kyle reese[info]the_grynne on March 5th, 2008 12:47 am (UTC)
Me neither. I wonder if Derek was just lying to cheer John up. Just what was Derek's place in John's inner circle - whether he's in it at all - is all very debatable. Cameron just says that Derek was one of John's "best soldiers" - nothing about how close they were. We only have Derek's word on that.
rodlox[info]rodlox on March 5th, 2008 01:00 am (UTC)
the recent three or four episodes have left me with a very worrying set of possibilities regarding future!John...
a) future!John is only alive because of Skynet. (as opposed to being rescued).
b) future!John is Skynet.
c) future!John and Skynet are playing some sort of chess game with their respective troops.

problems with -
a) why would Skynet spare the life of the adult John Connor?
b) this was suggested to me as a way for future!John to eliminate rivals for power in the post-Apocalypse human society. (kill off Connor's Lt.s)
c) surely John doesn't like chess that much.
Diana: scc_john.cameron[info]the_grynne on March 5th, 2008 01:51 am (UTC)
Fox being Fox, I don't know how dark they're going to be willing to go, but I'm interested in all 3 of those possibilities. The way the franchise has run, it makes both Skynet and future John into these polar opposites, legendary beings, without really going into detail about what they're actually like. I like the picture of John that we get from the flashforward - secretive, a strategist first and foremost, someone who lives with the most difficult decisions, and who is much closer to the enemy than most people want to contemplate.